When you did the festivals with GRUESOME last summer, you were already performing the track ‘Frailty’ live. I assume that “Silent Echoes” was fully written by then, since the drum parts had already been recorded?
“That’s right. We released a 7” single of ‘Frailty’ at the time, mainly to have something to promote during the tour. We had a fair number of shows lined up, and it had been a while since we’d released anything new. We had recorded a really good demo version of ‘Frailty’, and we thought, let’s put it out – just to let people know: “Hey, we’re still here!”. At that point, we were right in the middle of working on the album. If I remember correctly, most of the guitar tracks were already done by the time we headed to Europe. I live in California, and the rest of the band is based in Florida. After the tour with SABBAT, instead of flying home, I went straight to Florida. I had one day off, and then I immediately went into the studio and recorded all the vocals and solos over the next three or four days.”
GRUESOME runs on a tight schedule, since everyone is involved in multiple bands. How do you manage to keep GRUESOME ‘under control’ amid all that chaos?
“I have to say, it’s a logistical nightmare sometimes (laughs). It’s exhausting having to coordinate everyone’s schedules. It’s a challenge, and it’s one of the reasons why it took so long to finish this new album. There were a lot of different factors, but this was definitely one of the things that caused delays.”
In recent months, you’ve mentioned several times that you took the DEATH album “Human” as your main inspiration this time. What is it about “Human” that made it the next logical step for GRUESOME?
“We didn’t really have a concrete plan in the beginning, so to speak. When we made the first album, we were just doing it for fun and figured we’d see what happened. But once that album started to gain some momentum, we thought: “Apparently we’re supposed to make a second record.” On that first album, we combined influences from the first three DEATH records. From there, it became a bit more focused, with “Dimensions Of Horror” having a “Scream Bloody Gore” vibe and “Twisted Prayers” leaning more toward “Spiritual Healing”. “Human” just felt like the logical next step when you look at how DEATH’s discography evolved. But “Human” felt – more than the other albums – like a big, ambitious leap. DEATH made a massive step forward between those first three records and “Human”. So we had to make that step too.”
Even if you hadn’t said that “Silent Echoes” was inspired by “Human”, it becomes pretty clear when you listen to the album. The approach of ‘Lack Of Comprehension’ can be heard in ‘Condemned Reality’. And the vibe of ‘Together As One’ is clearly present in ‘Frailty’.
“That’s right. Our approach is not something you see very often. It’s a homage. You’re basically stepping into someone else’s playground and playing around a bit, as a tribute to what they’ve done. You see that kind of homage much more often in film than in Rock or Metal. Take Mel Brooks’ movie “High Anxiety”, for example, which is essentially a tribute to Alfred Hitchcock. Or “The Force Awakens” by J.J. Abrams, where he weaves in all sorts of elements from George Lucas and Steven Spielberg. That’s a pure homage. Or take Tarantino’s film “Death Proof”. You can immediately see what he’s trying to do there. He’s going for the vibe of the ‘70s exploitation films, more than making a typical Tarantino style movie. When a Rock or Metal band tries something like that, it seems like people try to hide it, because you’re supposedly expected to be original and expressive and all that. I love the first KINGDOM COME album, but if you listen to it, you hear LED ZEPPELIN all over it (laughs). Since Chuck Schildiner unfortunately passed away and can no longer write music, there will never be another DEATH album. If that weren’t the case, we never would have started GRUESOME. When we began, we made sure to really emphasize the tribute aspect, so people could clearly see that what we’re doing is an homage. And that, just like them, we’re simply big fans of the band.”
Your vocal resemblance to Chuck Schuldiner is stronger than ever on “Silent Echoes”. Honestly, I really don’t hear a difference anymore. To me, “Silent Echoes” could easily be an unreleased DEATH album recorded in the early ‘90s.
“Thanks (laughs)! I think what I did differently on this album was approach the vocals a bit differently, rather than using my natural timbre, which leans more toward (old) KREATOR and POSSESSED. Usually it takes a few days on tour before I reach the timbre that’s closer to Chuck’s. Toward the end of the first week, my voice usually feels right. The first few days are always a bit rough. What I did this time – like I mentioned – was go straight into the studio after a whole run of shows. My voice was still warmed up. I remember reading an interview with Bruce Dickinson once, where he said he did the same thing.”
“Silent Echoes” has a more introspective character compared to the bloodiness of “Savage Land” and the socially conscious tone of “Twisted Prayers”. The passing of drummer Sean Reinert was apparently one of the key factors behind this thematic shift.
“Yes and no. Sean’s passing definitely had a big impact on this album in terms of mood and emotional weight. But I already knew before we even started working on this record that it was going to be more introspective. The first DEATH album is completely about horror movies. “Leprosy” deals with horror in real life. “Spiritual Healing” addresses the horrors of real-world events. “Human” is very psychological and emotional. I knew that would be the central theme of this album, even before Sean passed away. But his passing did influence the way I approached the lyrics and what I wanted to say. For instance, the album title is a reference to Sean’s passing.”
Sean Reinert was originally going to produce “Silent Echoes”.
“That’s right. Sean and Gus were very close. Sean was a friend of mine as well, but more the kind of friend you see maybe once a year. Sean and Gus knew each other’s families, they called each other all the time. They were really tight. I think Gus was already a bit intimidated by the drum parts on this album because they’re a lot more complex. The original plan was that Gus and Sean would go over the material together and work on the drum parts to really get into the right mindset. When that opportunity disappeared – on top of the emotional blow – it was a huge setback in terms of how we had planned to approach the album. We wanted Sean to listen to the songs and give suggestions. He wasn’t going to be the one turning the knobs in the studio. Sean was going to take on more of a Martin Birch type role… giving input on arrangements and that sort of thing. We really wanted to lean on his insight and experience.”
Gus sat down with Scott Burns and played him the new album. What did he think?
“Apparently, he was very complimentary. Jarrett Pritchard – our engineer and producer – had worked with Scott before. Jarrett has known Scott for a while. Scott is also aware of what we’re doing with GRUESOME, of course. He’s clearly totally fine with it. They recorded a roundtable discussion with Jarrett, Scott, Gus and Sean’s sister. David E. Gehlke – the guy who’s working on a biography about Chuck Schuldiner – moderated the conversation. Unfortunately, I wasn’t there. I was in California at the time, but apparently it went really well. They still have to edit the recording, and then it’ll be posted online.”
The instrumental track ‘Voice Within The Void (Astral Ocean)’ is clearly a nod to the likewise instrumental DEATH song ‘Cosmic Sea’. What role does that song play within the larger framework of the album?
“We knew we wanted to include an instrumental track on this album. I live about 3,000 miles away from the rest of the band, so we started by sending files back and forth. But that just didn’t really work. We had already planned for me to come to Florida for a week to rehearse and finish the songwriting. So we set it aside for a bit and came back to it later in our rehearsal space. That’s how ‘Voice Within The Void (Astral Ocean)’ came about. ‘Cosmic Sea’ has always been the one song on ‘Human’ that I might skip if I was in a hurry. There are some cool parts in it, but there are also sections that sound like stoners just jamming in a studio (laughs). I wasn’t exactly dreading working on it, but I wasn’t super excited either. But once we started playing it together, everything just clicked. I’m really happy with how it turned out. I think we may have put a bit more of ourselves into that track. Paul Masvidal plays a solo on it, and that’s really awesome. It feels like a nice validation of what we’re doing. It shows people that we have the blessing of folks who were actually involved in DEATH. And that we’re not a bunch of vultures or anything like that (laughs).”
If you look at the artwork for “Silent Echoes”, it’s clear that a lot of thought went into it. The title appears in the bottom left corner in the same font as on “Human”. Even the brownish tones in the background are the same as those on the “Human” cover.
“The level of detail keeps going up with each album. We actually tried to involve René Miville for “Silent Echoes”. He was the one who created the artwork for “Human” back in the day. Unfortunately, he doesn’t make art anymore, so that wasn’t possible. Travis Smith – who did the artwork for “The Sound Of Perseverance” – had not only worked with DEATH before, but also had tons of insight and ideas. I think this is the first album where at some point I said: “Please stop sending concept sketches, because they’re all amazing and now we have to choose from eight incredible designs!” (laughs). Travis really nailed it and embraced exactly the same spirit that we put into the music.”
I read that Gus also plays in a band named LIVING MONSTROSITY. I assume that band is also connected to the music of DEATH?
“LIVING MONSTROSITY was just a one-off show that Gus and I did. We performed “Spiritual Healing” in full, together with Terry Butler and James Murphy. We played two shows in Florida with that band. Rick Rozz heard about what we’d done and reached out to Terry. He asked if we’d be interested in jamming with him and Terry and playing the “Leprosy” album. And that’s basically how LEFT TO DIE came to be.”
The last time I spoke to you was about the GRUESOME album “Twisted Prayers”. LEFT TO DIE didn’t exist yet back then. What have you learned the most from playing with Rick Rozz and Terry Butler?
“I love all the stories from the past that they tell. Terry has the memory of an elephant. I really enjoy hearing his perspective on the first shows he did with DEATH, the tour they did for “Scream Bloody Gore”, the events surrounding the “Ultimate Revenge” tour, and just all those old stories. Like the ones Rick tells about when the three of them used to rehearse in Chuck’s mom’s garage. It’s really special to be in an environment where that kind of stuff just comes up naturally in a conversation. It’s pretty unique to be immersed in a setting where you hear these things firsthand.”
With both GRUESOME and LEFT TOE DIE, you’ve now spent about ten years fully immersed in the music of Chuck Schuldiner. Does it ever feel like ‘too much’?
“You know, GRUESOME really started as a bit of a joke. We took making the album seriously, but I never really thought about what might come from it. I didn’t have any bigger goal than just being a fan who wanted to write a few songs I liked – and hopefully others would too. Everything that happened afterward has just been a bonus. Sometimes it does feel a little strange, because I also have my own bands and my own music, of course. It’s not my life’s mission to become Chuck Schuldiner Jr. I still stay true to myself, even when I play with GRUESOME and LEFT TO DIE. As a fan, I’m mostly just grateful for these opportunities. And I’m also grateful to our audience for accepting that I do this, because that was honestly my biggest fear in the beginning. I’m a Death Metal elitist myself, so I expected we’d get a lot more hate for what we were doing. But the audience really supports us, and that means a lot to me.”
To support GRUESOME’s European tour with the Japanese band SABBAT last year, you released a 7” single featuring a cover of the MANTAS song ‘Legion Of Doom’. That version sounds absolutely killer!
“I’m a huge fan of the DEATH demos. “Back From The Dead” is probably my favorite. As you probably know, I love fast music. And that demo is by far the fastest. For me, it’s important to think about every facet of DEATH. The MANTAS era, the famous 1984 live tape where they opened for NASTY SAVAGE… that’s just as important to me as “Symbolic”. Because without that early material, there wouldn’t have been a “Spiritual Healing” or a “Symbolic”. It’s all part of the legacy. Especially now that Chuck is no longer with us, all of it becomes even more precious, because nothing new will be added. It’s also just fun to follow the evolution of the band.”
When it comes to Chuck Schuldiner’s old material, do you personally draw a line between MANTAS and DEATH?
“No. To me, it’s the same band. Just like HELLHAMMER and CELTIC FROST are the same band to me.”
Have you ever heard the cover version of ‘Legion Of Doom’ that the Dutch band PENTACLE recorded about 25 years ago?
“Absolutely! That version is on their album “Ancient Death”. PENTACLE is a great band, and Wannes’ vocals are fantastic! I was actually listening to one of their albums at the gym just last week.”
You casually mentioned earlier that David E. Gehlke is writing a Chuck Schuldiner biography. I assume you’ve been approached for that as well?
“David interviewed Gus for the book. David seems like someone who genuinely cares about the story and the music. I’m really curious to see what he’s going to write. The fact that the band I play in will be mentioned in it is already something special. I’m just a kid from the Bay Area in San Francisco. I was eleven when “Scream Bloody Gore” came out. To be part of that story in any way is just surreal.”
So much has already been said and published about Chuck Schuldiner. Do you think there’s still a lot about the man that hasn’t been discussed or written about yet?
“I think Chuck’s story is pretty complicated. The choices he made in his career were often not the best. His working relationships with other people were often tense and sometimes really difficult. Some of that is due to himself, of course. Chuck was clearly a man with inner conflicts. He wanted to be in a band and make music, but he didn’t want to complete a full tour. He constantly had line-up changes. Some people were in his band one year, and a year later they were his biggest enemies. That aspect of him trying to be understood hasn’t really been highlighted, in my opinion. I think that’s because his musical legacy is so strong, and people don’t want to portray him as a jerk. Another point is that he died very young. Most people soften with age and gain a different perspective. It would be interesting to highlight that aspect and explore why he was so conflicted with himself, and why his relationships in the music industry were often so confrontational. That’s something I’m personally interested in, but I don’t know to what extent that will be covered in the book. To me, that’s still a missing piece of the puzzle and that would be an interesting angle for the story.”
“Silent Echoes” was released last month. In September / October you’ll be touring with LEFT TO DIE, performing the album “Scream Bloody Gore” in full. So will a tour with GRUESOME to promote “Silent Echoes” likely follow afterwards?
“As I said, our personal schedules are pretty complicated. Unfortunately, we don’t have anything planned at the moment. My preference would have been to tour immediately after the album came out. That wasn’t possible, but there’s a lot in the pipeline. The good news is that the people who have heard “Silent Echoes” are really enthusiastic about it. That makes me believe there will be many opportunities to go out and play the album’s songs live in the future.”
www.facebook.com/gruesomedeathmetal, https://gruesomedeathmetal.bandcamp.com
Live photos by Peter Vangelder
Interview: Steven Willems